Ep 41 - Overcoming Perfectionism with Self-Development Coaching with Jessica Manca

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Welcome to the Thinkydoers podcast.

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Thinkydoers are those of us drawn to deep work, where thinking is

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working, but we don't stop there.

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We're compelled to move the work from insight to idea through the messy

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middle, to find courage and confidence to put our thoughts into action.

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I'm Sara Lobkovich, and I'm a Thinkydoer.

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Today I'm doing something we rarely do here on Thinkydoers, inviting

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a fellow coach onto the podcast.

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We typically feature mental health professionals and other kinds

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of deep subject matter experts.

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But when Jessica Manca and I connected, I knew her expertise on perfectionism,

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overthinking, and intrinsic motivation would resonate deeply with our listeners.

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Jessica is a self-development coach, an executive career coach,

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a speaker, and an author who helps perfectionists and introverts unlock

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their best selves without overthinking.

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Her approach to tackling these internal stories and limiting beliefs

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that keep us stuck offer practical tools you can start using today.

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In this episode, we'll explore Jessica's journey from management

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consultant to coach, discuss what professional coaching actually is

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versus what a lot of people think it is, and we'll dive into some techniques

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and conversation about overcoming perfectionism and shifting your self-talk

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patterns to support your own growth.

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So let's get started with this episode.

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Alright, friends, I am super excited to have Jessica Manca here today with me.

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Jessica is a coach.

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We never have coaches on the show.

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It's always other kinds of mental health professionals or subject matter experts.

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But when Jessica and I got on the phone, it was like an instant.

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"Oh my gosh, yes. You have to join me." And so I'll have Jessica introduce

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herself and then we'll dive in from there.

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So Jessica, tell our listeners a little bit about you and what you do.

Jessica: 00:02:00

Awesome.

Jessica: 00:02:00

Thank you Sara, and the feeling is mutual.

Jessica: 00:02:03

I'm so happy to be here and I'm really excited to be on Thinkydoers today.

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My name is Jessica Manca.

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I'm a self-development coach and executive career coach, a speaker, and

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an author of the book Finding Passion.

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I help perfectionist and introverts unlock their best self without overthinking.

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But my superpower in that is really helping match people with

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the work that they do to the person that they want to be.

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I'm just really excited to speak with you and to learn with you today in

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this podcast, so thanks for having me.

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I'm always curious when I meet someone else who works on

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the career side of coaching, how did you come to do this work?

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The short version is, I was a former management consultant on the

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partner track, and I experienced this really intense period of time when

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I had my son, he's now 15, almost 16, so this was many years ago now.

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I was really struggling with managing a demanding career in tech, where I'm

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sometimes the only woman in the room.

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It's very demanding work.

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We were working six or seven days a week sometimes, and it just wasn't

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sustainable with a 1-year-old.

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That was the logistics.

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But the story underneath that is that for some time, I was

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really burning out of the career.

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The career was no longer fitting me, and my confidence levels

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were like up and down every day.

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One day I'm having a great win and things are working really well.

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The next day, I'm feeling like an imposter.

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I don't want to be positioned to a client as a solution architect one more

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time, because that's not what I do.

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When I was burning out of my career and my performance really started

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to suffer, I was suffering mentally.

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I was suffering physically, I was stressed out like you wouldn't believe.

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I hired an external coach.

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We did the deep work in order for me to find the answers within me to figure

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out what I really wanted to do, and it just unlocked so much for me personally.

Sara: 00:04:03

I love that.

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Your personal experience with imposter feelings and I'm going to also guess

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perfectionism and overthinking, it's not like many of us wind up working in those

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disciplines without personal experience.

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I'm sure some people do, that must be fascinating, but I think it takes a lot of

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empathy and shared understanding to work with folks struggling with those things.

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It sounds like coaching played a big part in you making that

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shift from suffering to serving.

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Tell me a little bit more about that journey.

Jessica: 00:04:34

I think I was curious about that aspect of what

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takes a high performer higher.

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Even within the firm at the time, I was a coach, and I'm going to use the air

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quote version, I was a "coach advisor" to people who were more junior to me.

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Very early on, I won a Coach of the Year Award.

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I was asked by my managing partner, "What are you doing

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that is making high performers go higher?" And I knew what it was.

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It was because I was intrinsically motivated and curious about What it

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takes for somebody to be a consultant.

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It is already too late.

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There's not enough time, there's not the right resources, client's

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mad, the regulatory deadline's not going to move, like all these

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really big impossible things.

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It wasn't the technology solution that interested me.

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It was.

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The people who need to step up at that 11th hour and deliver it over the line.

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And so I knew it was something about people.

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And what's even crazier about this story is that when I hired my coach

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and she asked me, you know, all these deep questions about, what I already

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considered, and what had I think I was good at doing, and all these things.

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And I had this flash of a memory that I had actually asked that same managing

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partner who was like, "How are you doing that?" — I asked him, "What happens

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if I feel like I have this capacity within me that's not being harnessed?

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What happens when we start teaching the client, helping them be better leaders

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and coaching them to be better leaders?

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Forget the technology solution, but Just be better leaders, make better

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strategic decisions." And he's like, "Yeah, we don't do that." And I kind

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of knew the writing was on the wall.

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I'm saying this publicly, but he doesn't know this to this

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day — it's like it really changed me.

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That so much more that I have to give, he just confirmed that

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is not going to happen here.

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So I have to go someplace else to do that.

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It is so funny how much is similar in our stories and how we got here.

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I'm just nodding along.

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I'm like, "Oh yeah, I remember that day. Oh yeah, I remember that too." I was

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not someone who decided to be a coach.

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Coaching found me.

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A similar situation — first coaching role was as an in-house coach.

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I was hired as an "in-house coach" somewhere without a coaching skillset,

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didn't know what that was, and decided, "If I was going to be called a coach,

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I'd better learn." And that was how I found my calling, very unexpectedly.

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Well, in corporate, this was 15 years ago, professional coaching,

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the kind of that I do now with the International Coach Federation, which is

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a global standard for coaching worldwide.

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it was really viewed as a disciplinary action.

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When you were getting assigned to a coach, you were underperforming.

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You were delinquent.

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You had a deficiency that needed to be retrofitted, and otherwise you're out.

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I knew I was going into something that was a little bit, maybe taboo.

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But through my own personal experience working with my coach, there was

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nothing taboo about it at all.

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It was me and my inner limits, and my limiting beliefs, and my fears,

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and my aspirations and ultimate future that we were working towards.

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And having somebody who is willing to partner with you on that is priceless.

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The potential is that you get to unlock these blind spots in yourself.

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And once I heard that, I was sold.

Sara: 00:07:51

So one of the things you mentioned is ICF certification.

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You're ICF certified.

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I am a nationally board-certified health and wellness coach, so that

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involves taking national boards.

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I am not an ICF member, but I adhere to the ICF ethics and

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operating everything is aligned.

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Can you tell me a little bit about what the difference is working

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with someone who's ICF-aligned or certified or compliant versus working

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with someone who calls themself a coach but doesn't necessarily

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have that training and experience.

Jessica: 00:08:25

Absolutely.

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The ICF definition is helping to partner with another individual on their

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personal and professional development in a way that helps them understand

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themselves and unlock their potential.

Jessica: 00:08:38

I don't have the answers when I'm working with somebody.

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I don't have the Magic 8 Ball that says, "Oh, you've got this

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problem? Here's your solution." It's exact opposite of consulting

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that I was doing all those years.

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Consulting was like, "Here's my problem," And the consultant comes

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in and be like, "Okay, A, B, C. Which silver platter solution do you want

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from us?" It's the exact opposite.

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It's helping somebody understand the answers from within.

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I really wanted to understand how personal change works and the cycles of that so

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that I could help somebody be better, but not just be better while we're

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working together, but after we're working together, to still have the tools and

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the resilience to be confident beyond.

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That, to me, was a success.

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There's a lot of value a person can get from either a professional

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ICF coach or another type of coach.

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There's value in both camps.

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But in ICF coaching, and certainly as I'm working towards my master certification

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in coaching, which is MCC level, you're truly partnering with somebody.

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It's not a hierarchical relationship.

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You are seeing eye to eye with your client.

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You're trying to, we call it, walk across the bridge of

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understanding to where they are.

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To be empathetic, to be gentle, to take care and pay attention to the

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things that they're saying and the things that they're not saying.

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And if you're working with a coach that's more of an advisor, then that

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you might experience more of that hierarchy, which may be what you want.

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But for all the pieces that are intrinsic — confidence, knowing what you

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want in your life, how to work on your negative self-talk or how to work on your

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perfectionism, these are intrinsic things.

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And those, I find personally that.

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You need to self-discover the answers for yourself so that the change can last.

Sara: 00:10:20

I think it's really important for coaches who hold to an

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ethical standard to talk about.

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It's not that coaching that doesn't is bad, it's just that it's different tools.

Sara: 00:10:32

You used a word that I think is really valuable, which is advising.

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We as professional coaches, don't give advice.

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It's risky to give advice to a client.

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There might be situations in health coaching and probably in

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other kinds of coaching where you ask consent to give advice.

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"So I'm going to take off my coach hat for a second and put on my subject

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matter expert hat for a minute, if that's all right with you, if you want

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that." So I really love that you gave an opportunity for us to share that.

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Because I don't think we've talked about that on Thinkydoers before,

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because I don't ever have coaches on.

Jessica: 00:11:08

And the word coaching, right?

Jessica: 00:11:09

It means like a sports coach, the coach who's yelling at the team

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to play harder, or go run faster.

Jessica: 00:11:14

There's so many reasons why that term is muddy.

Jessica: 00:11:18

When I describe it to somebody who's new to coaching, I say

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coaching is instant feedback.

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Coaching is helping you develop the tools for yourself and helping have an outside

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observer who's not connected, and not attached to the things that you're saying.

Jessica: 00:11:33

We're trying to understand it at face value and say, "If that's what you want,

Jessica: 00:11:37

then this piece seems to be contradictory.

Jessica: 00:11:39

What do you hear?" And it's always about turning it back to the individual to

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say, "What do you, what did you hear yourself say?" If a client asks me

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like, "Well, what do you think, Jessica?

Jessica: 00:11:48

I just want to hear what you think." And I'm like, "It doesn't matter what I think.

Jessica: 00:11:52

What do you think?

Jessica: 00:11:52

What do you want to do about that?"

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One of the things that really cracks me up is when I'm in session

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with a client and I am in active listening mode, and reflecting

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back to them what they're saying.

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So, a client's given an answer, and I say, "What I heard you say is..." and I use

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exactly the words they just said verbatim.

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And they're like, "Oh my gosh, that's such a good way to say it." And I'm

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like, "Yeah, that's what you just said."

Jessica: 00:12:19

And, you know, the phrase that I tell myself, like my mantra

Jessica: 00:12:22

when I'm coaching someone is, "I'm coaching the beautiful soul across

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from me, and that's all that matters."

Sara: 00:12:27

Yeah.

Sara: 00:12:28

I love it.

Sara: 00:12:29

One of the things we do here is we get nitty-gritty.

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We want to offer practices and other things that aren't just theory.

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So if people are struggling with overthinking, perfectionism,

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recognizing their stories or their limiting beliefs and fears,

Sara: 00:12:45

where do you begin with clients?

Jessica: 00:12:47

Yeah, great question.

Jessica: 00:12:48

You just started to elaborate on those inner limits.

Jessica: 00:12:51

I mean, I'm going to be really practical here.

Jessica: 00:12:53

We start with the goal-setting workshop.

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And it's not like a typical goal-setting workshop where you have SMART goals

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or OKRs, but it's a version of that.

Jessica: 00:13:02

OKRs actually more closely matches to what I do.

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Which is a simple chart with three columns.

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A left column is what you want.

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The middle column is what's getting in your way the blockers.

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And the right column is what happens when the blockers are removed.

Jessica: 00:13:16

I grew up, I watched The Price is Right and it's like "Squeeze Play,"

Jessica: 00:13:20

where you pull out the number and everything comes together and that's the

Jessica: 00:13:23

magic number of the car and they win.

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So it's like that, pull out the blockers, and everything

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squeezes together and they win.

Jessica: 00:13:30

That middle column though is at the heart of what affects overthinkers

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and perfectionists, and sometimes introverts — is four things — one

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is stories that we tell, and these are stories that are on repeat.

Jessica: 00:13:44

Your partner's heard it.

Jessica: 00:13:46

Your colleague currently is hearing it.

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Your colleague from last job heard it.

Jessica: 00:13:51

These are the stories that you have on repeat.

Jessica: 00:13:53

"I'm always this type of person," "I do this," "I'm not a morning

Jessica: 00:13:56

person." Whatever those lasting stories that you have about

Jessica: 00:13:59

yourself, those are repeat stories.

Sara: 00:14:03

Hey listeners, Sara here with a quick note.

Sara: 00:14:06

In this next segment, Jessica's going to use a term that I don't

Sara: 00:14:09

usually use, which is the term "excuses" as part of her framework.

Sara: 00:14:15

Now this word is triggering or judgmental for some of us,

Sara: 00:14:19

especially those of us with ADHD or other forms of neurodivergence.

Sara: 00:14:25

Where we've often had very real challenges dismissed as making excuses, and that is

Sara: 00:14:30

not at all what we're talking about here.

Sara: 00:14:33

I'd actually really encourage you to listen to how Jessica

Sara: 00:14:36

frames the concept of excuses.

Sara: 00:14:39

She's using that term in a specific way to help us identify patterns that keep

Sara: 00:14:45

perfectionists stuck in avoidance cycles.

Sara: 00:14:48

Her explanation offers a helpful perspective shift that I'm going to

Sara: 00:14:52

carry with me, and that might actually give you more self-compassion, not less.

Sara: 00:14:57

Now, back to our conversation.

Jessica: 00:15:03

The next type of inner limit is excuses.

Jessica: 00:15:05

From a perfectionist, it's usually point-in-time.

Jessica: 00:15:08

"As soon as I complete this, then I'll be able to have that." You're always putting

Jessica: 00:15:14

the thing that you want at arm's length.

Jessica: 00:15:17

You're adding obstacles, you're adding conditions and criteria that are

Jessica: 00:15:22

pushing what you want further out.

Jessica: 00:15:24

The next one are those limiting beliefs.

Jessica: 00:15:26

Most people know their limiting beliefs.

Jessica: 00:15:29

They know to some degree that it's a combination of the

Jessica: 00:15:31

stories and excuses as well.

Jessica: 00:15:33

Where it's really formed into something that you believe.

Jessica: 00:15:36

You believe you'll get hurt.

Jessica: 00:15:37

You believe it'll be hard.

Jessica: 00:15:39

You believe you can't have that.

Jessica: 00:15:40

You believe you're not smart enough.

Jessica: 00:15:42

And then the fourth type of inner limit is the fear.

Jessica: 00:15:45

And with the people that I work with, yeah, fear of failure definitely

Jessica: 00:15:49

comes up, but most often it's actually fear of unknown, fear of success.

Jessica: 00:15:53

Those two are more prevalent.

Jessica: 00:15:55

Fear of unknown to an overthinker is terrifying because you're in limbo.

Jessica: 00:15:59

There isn't ground to stand on.

Jessica: 00:16:01

It's literally unknown.

Jessica: 00:16:03

And then the fear of success is exactly expanding into your biggest self.

Jessica: 00:16:08

What would that look like?

Jessica: 00:16:08

What would that take?

Jessica: 00:16:10

And it means addressing all of those.

Jessica: 00:16:12

When I'm working with somebody, we start by getting real and I call

Jessica: 00:16:15

things out in my clients, but I want them to call themselves out.

Jessica: 00:16:19

"Hey, I know I'm doing this." And before too long, a session or two, they're

Jessica: 00:16:24

starting a sentence and they're saying the word, "but," and then they go,

Jessica: 00:16:27

"Wait, I shouldn't say it like that.

Jessica: 00:16:29

What I mean to say is..." and now they've already started to catch themselves.

Jessica: 00:16:33

So as soon as we can define those blockers and those inner

Jessica: 00:16:37

limits, they start to dissipate.

Jessica: 00:16:39

They start to minimize, and we can refer back to them and look at them.

Jessica: 00:16:44

But they can see in black and white, wow, when I started working with you, I was

Jessica: 00:16:48

worried about all this stuff, and now I'm not worried about those things anymore.

Jessica: 00:16:51

Now those aren't my, blockers.

Sara: 00:16:52

I'm sure that some people who are listening right now have a quiet

Sara: 00:16:56

and still meditation practice, but I love that what you're talking about is

Sara: 00:17:01

mindfulness for people with busy brains.

Sara: 00:17:03

The first step is noticing, and that is as valuable as sitting still and

Sara: 00:17:08

meditating — is working on cultivating the ability to notice your stories.

Jessica: 00:17:14

Yeah, I completely agree with you.

Jessica: 00:17:16

You can't improve on your blind spots because you, honestly are not aware, and

Jessica: 00:17:20

even others may not be aware of them.

Jessica: 00:17:22

And I put them in that order for a reason.

Jessica: 00:17:24

SELF, stories, excuses, limiting beliefs and fears.

Jessica: 00:17:28

These are the parts of yourself that are no longer serving you

Sara: 00:17:31

You just brought it home to say it isn't just about what you're trying to

Sara: 00:17:36

achieve in terms of the external world.

Sara: 00:17:39

I love that you started with starting with what you want.

Sara: 00:17:42

Because I think that's the piece that even when clients come into coaching, they're

Sara: 00:17:46

not always aware that's where we're going to work — is with what do you want?

Sara: 00:17:50

It's not just about the behavior or the achievement or

Sara: 00:17:53

the goal that you're seeking.

Sara: 00:17:55

It is that skillset of tying back to what you want, that I think some clients

Sara: 00:18:02

find really surprising and challenging.

Jessica: 00:18:05

Yeah, exactly.

Jessica: 00:18:06

And I've always, been kind of an achiever type, and it's working

Jessica: 00:18:11

in that long view and working in the short term at the same time.

Jessica: 00:18:15

And when I think about doing the Inner limits work, which I still work on with

Jessica: 00:18:18

my coach as well, there's still other layers of that for us individually.

Jessica: 00:18:24

Even if you think you've got it all figured out or you're mastering

Jessica: 00:18:26

your domain there, you're going to have situations in life that are

Jessica: 00:18:30

going to be new moments for you.

Jessica: 00:18:31

You've never been there before.

Jessica: 00:18:33

Or maybe you've never been there with your kids before, or you've never been

Jessica: 00:18:36

50 and doing that before, whatever it is.

Jessica: 00:18:38

Coaching and these strategies or these kind of self-understanding,

Jessica: 00:18:42

self-development work that we do, it's really to help you have

Jessica: 00:18:47

new tools to meet the moment.

Sara: 00:18:49

So when we talked the first time, we talked about some of the

Sara: 00:18:52

mindset work that you support.

Sara: 00:18:54

When you're working with someone to try and make that shift, where

Sara: 00:18:57

do you recommend folks start?

Jessica: 00:18:59

An obvious place to start is the language.

Jessica: 00:19:02

Because the language that you say to yourself and out loud, it

Jessica: 00:19:08

reveals your beliefs, it reveals your values to some degree.

Jessica: 00:19:13

A great example would be the traditional New Year's resolution, that they want

Jessica: 00:19:17

to lose 20 pounds and get the gym membership and buy the new Nikes and get

Jessica: 00:19:22

the hot new yoga clothes or whatever, but they don't believe inside that going

Jessica: 00:19:28

to a gym is going to work for them.

Jessica: 00:19:30

That is misalignment.

Jessica: 00:19:32

That one belief and that one story in those few words is going to disrupt

Jessica: 00:19:37

any positive habit that they could form around getting healthy and

Jessica: 00:19:41

getting fit and going to that gym.

Jessica: 00:19:43

So the language to me is one of the most obvious indicators, and we can

Jessica: 00:19:48

record, a coaching session with a client and we can have them play it back.

Jessica: 00:19:52

The homework is, listen to that back, listen to how it sounded.

Jessica: 00:19:55

Share next time what you learned about that.

Jessica: 00:19:57

I had one client, instead of, the four-letter word is a bad thing, he said,

Jessica: 00:20:00

it's my three-letter word that is so bad.

Jessica: 00:20:03

And it was but.

Jessica: 00:20:04

Every time he would say an idea, he would say this, but here's why it can't work.

Jessica: 00:20:10

So he would dream up this idea like Jack in the Beanstalk, a little seed and

Jessica: 00:20:14

little stalk sprouting from his hand.

Jessica: 00:20:17

As soon as he would say the word but it would all come back

Jessica: 00:20:19

down and crumble and go away.

Jessica: 00:20:22

And we worked on that one word, but, and he started to catch himself and he started

Jessica: 00:20:26

to change his mindset because the outlook was negative as soon as but happened.

Jessica: 00:20:31

That was like the activation word.

Jessica: 00:20:33

It was a negative mindset from there on, and it would only stay negative.

Jessica: 00:20:36

My tip for where to start is watching your language.

Sara: 00:20:41

Yeah, that's really helpful.

Sara: 00:20:43

The story that brought back is actually one of my pivotal moments in coach

Sara: 00:20:47

training, I was working with an instructor who talked about people who want to

Sara: 00:20:52

increase their consistency of working out.

Sara: 00:20:56

He is like, if we set a goal to work out more, then our all or

Sara: 00:21:00

nothing and self-judgment kicks in and demand avoidance can kick in.

Sara: 00:21:05

And he's how about you set a goal to go to the gym more often.

Sara: 00:21:09

And that might some days mean going to the gym and working out, and other days

Sara: 00:21:15

that might mean putting on your sneakers and getting in the car and driving to

Sara: 00:21:19

the gym and then laying the seat back and taking a nap and then driving home.

Sara: 00:21:24

I mean, it's just so cool to see the ways that we can reframe thinking instead of

Sara: 00:21:32

just repeating the same thinking habits.

Jessica: 00:21:35

Yes.

Jessica: 00:21:36

And when you talk about repeating the same habits, so when we're stuck,

Jessica: 00:21:42

we're in a pattern of those limiting beliefs and those inner limits just

Jessica: 00:21:46

circling the drain again and again.

Jessica: 00:21:48

Sometimes we have to break our own pattern and we take a new step forward,

Jessica: 00:21:52

and those new steps are success habits.

Jessica: 00:21:54

Those new steps are micro habits even, or new words that we say, and then suddenly

Jessica: 00:22:00

we're doing the things that we need to do to close the gap to where we want to go.

Sara: 00:22:05

One other thing I wanted to ask about is your ebook.

Sara: 00:22:08

So you have an ebook called Self-Motivation is Your New Superpower.

Sara: 00:22:11

Tell us about your ebook and who that's for and why someone might check it out.

Jessica: 00:22:17

Thank you for knowing that.

Jessica: 00:22:20

My ebook is my lesser-known book.

Jessica: 00:22:22

I have a book called Finding Passion, which is helping

Jessica: 00:22:24

people navigate the crossroads.

Jessica: 00:22:26

My ebook was a complete function of the pandemic.

Jessica: 00:22:30

I saw so many people who struggled on how to be self-motivated.

Jessica: 00:22:36

And there was something in me that said, I know something about motivation, and

Jessica: 00:22:41

I believe that there's going to be a lot of people that, once the pandemic really

Jessica: 00:22:44

continues to unravel, are really going to struggle with working from home and

Jessica: 00:22:48

being disconnected from that network and that kind of forcing function that

Jessica: 00:22:52

makes you go and makes you keep working.

Jessica: 00:22:55

It's just you at your computer alone.

Jessica: 00:22:58

Now, how do you stay self-motivated?

Jessica: 00:23:00

And that was my desire to write a book that would help

Jessica: 00:23:03

people during the pandemic.

Sara: 00:23:05

I am motivation-obsessed.

Sara: 00:23:07

If I could go back and study something, it would be motivation science,

Sara: 00:23:11

and that self-motivation component, that is one of the other things

Sara: 00:23:15

that I just observe over and over.

Sara: 00:23:17

People were so used to handing our agency and motivation over to others and

Sara: 00:23:24

authority figures and external forces, and it's really exciting in the work

Sara: 00:23:31

that I do to see people realize that they can bring that back to intrinsic

Sara: 00:23:37

motivation and self-motivation.

Jessica: 00:23:39

And when I was in Seattle, we were very fortunate

Jessica: 00:23:41

to have lived on a houseboat or a floating home in Lake Union.

Jessica: 00:23:46

And so I thought a lot about buoyancy.

Jessica: 00:23:48

So I put that into my book, and I called it motivational buoyancy, which

Jessica: 00:23:52

is, do you have enough motivation?

Jessica: 00:23:54

Do you have enough supports going on for you right now that are keeping you buoyant

Jessica: 00:23:58

even when the waters are getting rough?

Jessica: 00:24:00

Even when you're working in things that you've never done before.

Jessica: 00:24:03

And so that was one of the basic, the key takeaways in that book.

Sara: 00:24:06

Oh, that's so cool.

Sara: 00:24:07

What have I not asked you that I should have?

Jessica: 00:24:10

We talked about mindset, and the opposite of having a growth or

Jessica: 00:24:14

learning or abundance mindset is having a judgment mindset or negative mindset.

Jessica: 00:24:19

And a lot of people will do that black-and-white thinking thing,

Jessica: 00:24:22

and they'll have one bad moment, one setback in their life, and

Jessica: 00:24:26

they'll say, I'm on the wrong path.

Jessica: 00:24:28

And I was that person when I had my career set back.

Jessica: 00:24:33

I can honestly say, if you just look down beneath your feet, you're on

Jessica: 00:24:38

the exact path you're meant to be on, and those things that happen in your

Jessica: 00:24:42

life that you think are terrible and horrible are actually huge gifts.

Jessica: 00:24:47

In my career, I needed it to get that bad in order for me to wake up.

Jessica: 00:24:50

I'm so grateful.

Jessica: 00:24:51

If things had just been so, even-keeled, I'd probably still be there being

Jessica: 00:24:55

miserable and working my way to the top.

Jessica: 00:24:57

I just can't even imagine.

Jessica: 00:24:58

It's just so bizarre to me to even think.

Jessica: 00:25:00

It needed to get really bad for me to listen to myself.

Sara: 00:25:04

All right.

Sara: 00:25:05

Jessica, this has been so much fun.

Sara: 00:25:07

Thank you so much for joining me.

Sara: 00:25:09

Tell my listeners about your book and about where they can find you

Sara: 00:25:14

if they want more information.

Jessica: 00:25:16

Yeah, absolutely.

Jessica: 00:25:17

I've really enjoyed the learning today.

Jessica: 00:25:18

It's been awesome.

Jessica: 00:25:20

If anyone listening would like to learn more and do the deep work or

Jessica: 00:25:25

get out of their own way, I do have a download that accompanies today.

Jessica: 00:25:29

You can find it on my website, which is JessicaManca.com/thinkydoers.

Jessica: 00:25:36

So check it out, and you can download that for free.

Jessica: 00:25:40

And there's a lot more there on the website too.

Jessica: 00:25:42

In a few weeks, I'll be hosting a workshop on, imposter syndrome, which is coming up.

Jessica: 00:25:46

So you can check that out on my website as well.

Jessica: 00:25:49

And you can find me on socials, mostly on LinkedIn, is where I live.

Jessica: 00:25:54

And I just want to thank you for the space that you're creating here in

Jessica: 00:25:57

this podcast to really give voice to people who don't always have a

Jessica: 00:26:01

lot of space for this kind of talk.

Jessica: 00:26:04

They do it a lot in their head, but having it out and raising more awareness around

Jessica: 00:26:08

the resources that different types of thinkers need, I just think is so powerful

Jessica: 00:26:12

and I just absolutely support you.

Jessica: 00:26:14

So, happy to be here and happy to, have been on your show.

Sara: 00:26:18

Well, Jessica, thank you so much.

Sara: 00:26:19

It's been wonderful to speak with you today, and yes, I

Sara: 00:26:22

look forward to our follow-up.

Jessica: 00:26:24

Yes.

Jessica: 00:26:25

Thank you Sara, and congrats on your recent ebook.

Jessica: 00:26:27

I'm so happy every time I see that come through.

Jessica: 00:26:30

I'm just so thrilled for you and all your success.

Sara: 00:26:34

I want to thank Jessica Manka for joining us today and sharing her

Sara: 00:26:37

insights on perfectionism, overthinking, and the power of shifting our self-talk.

Sara: 00:26:43

Now, she and I had a long and very interesting conversation, so we had to

Sara: 00:26:48

make some entire question and answer cuts.

Sara: 00:26:51

So, this is not the last time you're going to hear from Jessica.

Sara: 00:26:54

I'm going to share some more from our conversation as shorts

Sara: 00:26:58

in the weeks and months to come.

Sara: 00:26:59

So the excitement around here is that my new book, You Are a Strategist: Use No BS

Sara: 00:27:05

OKRs to Get Big Things Done is now live.

Sara: 00:27:09

We had a really unexpectedly strong ebook launch, and the book is now

Sara: 00:27:14

available on Amazon, Kobo, Apple Books, and Google Play with more to follow.

Sara: 00:27:20

I just want to say a huge thank you for all the support around the book.

Sara: 00:27:23

This has been an enormous project.

Sara: 00:27:25

It has not been a solo project, and it never would've happened alone.

Sara: 00:27:29

So a big thank you to my book team and to Ellie and to our beta readers and

Sara: 00:27:34

to everyone who has been a part of not letting me give up on this book project.

Sara: 00:27:40

I just want to say a really sincere thank you.

Sara: 00:27:42

And don't forget, if you haven't gotten your ebook copy of You Are a Strategist:

Sara: 00:27:46

Use No BS OKRs to Get Big Things Done, find it wherever you read eBooks.

Sara: 00:27:51

And if it isn't there, let me know, and I'll see if I can get it added.

Sara: 00:27:55

Thanks all.

Sara: 00:27:56

All right, friends, That's it for today.

Sara: 00:27:59

Stay in the loop with everything going on around here by

Sara: 00:28:02

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Sara: 00:28:08

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Sara: 00:28:09

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Sara: 00:28:16

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Sara: 00:28:17

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Sara: 00:28:21

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Sara: 00:28:23

For today's show notes, visit findrc.co/thinkydoers.

Sara: 00:28:28

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Sara: 00:28:33

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Sara: 00:28:38

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Sara: 00:28:42

I'm looking forward to the questions this episode sparks for you, and I

Sara: 00:28:45

look forward to seeing you next time.