Ep 47 - Beyond The Binary and Queering Goal Setting

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Welcome to the Thinkydoers podcast.

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I'm your host, Sara Lobkovich, and I am a Thinkydoer.

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I'm here to help those of us who are wired for change find more

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satisfaction, frustration, less friction, and more flow in our work.

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Today I have a very niche treat.

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I made a new friend on Threads over our mutual loathing of smart goals.

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So today my guest is Zeph, an anti-hussle business strategist who helps radical

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business owners build what they call "breathe-easy businesses." When Zeph

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and I connected about our mutual loathing — yes, loathing — of SMART

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goals on a social media thread, I knew we had to have this conversation.

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I don't know many people who feel as strongly about.

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The fine points of goal setting as I do if you've ever felt boxed in by

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traditional goal-setting practices.

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If you've wondered why hitting your targets doesn't always feel like

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success, or if you're curious about what queering your approach to work

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might look like, this episode's for you.

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We're going to explore Zeph's SLIC method for goal setting, talk about why

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self-care is not optional, and we happen to land on a pretty beautiful reframe.

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That might just change how you think about goals altogether.

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So let's get into the episode.

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Zeph, I wanna welcome you to Thinkydoers.

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We met in a kind of funny way.

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Yeah, we did.

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Over our mutual loathing of SMART goals on a Threads post.

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I was like, holy shit, someone who hates SMART goals as much as I do.

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We've gotta meet.

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And so we did.

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And you're definitely a Thinkydoer.

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I couldn't wait to get you on the podcast.

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For folks who don't know you yet though, let's hear who are you, what do you do?

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I'm super excited about it.

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So if you've not seen me running around these internet streets — hi, hello babes.

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I'm an anti-hussle biz strategist showing radical biz babes how to build

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breathe-easy business that make their brains happy and let their bodies breathe.

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I'm all about simple, values-aligned systems that fit in a backpack — light,

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flexible, and ready to go wherever I go.

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There's systems built within, capacity-driven curiosity, so you can

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show up with enough space to choose your own biz adventure without burning out,

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where your biz gets to be the portal to a life you actually want to live, one

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that's well resourced and rooted in care.

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This is Biz is Unusual, and it's what makes biz sustainable and subversive

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in this capitalistic hellscape.

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Because you don't have to choose between doing good and doing biz.

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Collective care is the biz plan.

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I got goosebumps at the end.

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I love it.

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Welcome.

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You expressed your loathing of SMART goals online, and I think there

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are probably very few people in the world who have feelings as strong

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about SMART goals as you and I do.

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there are a lot of people who don't enjoy them, but I'd just love to

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hear from you, why do you have such a visceral reaction to SMART goals?

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Yeah, thank you.

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I love this question.

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So for me, I'm very expansive.

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So for me it's all about possibility, it's all about curiosity, it's about

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expanding into who you're becoming and leaving behind who you were.

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And so for me, when I think about SMART goals, SMART goals are very binary.

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You either succeed or you fail.

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And I'm not somebody who does the binary very well.

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I have a very rebellious streak in me.

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And It feels very rigid, it feels very structured.

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It feels like there's not a lot of leeway to not only have a different

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outcome, but there's not a lot of space to actually enjoy the journey as

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you're getting to where you want to go.

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There's no sense of play, there's no sense of adventure,

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there's no sense of exploration.

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It's all reliant on the actual outcome — like, what is it, the thing that you want?

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And also, what I find with that is that when we decide the thing

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that we want, it's like, why did we decide that was a thing that we want?

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Because most of the time, the goals that somebody's already prescribed for us.

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Because it's easier to fall into that.

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We think about things like money, or we think about things like visibility.

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And I'm like, why are those the metrics that we have decided upon, that

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that is what our success looks like?

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And I'm like, as somebody who's expansive, that doesn't really fly well with me.

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Because that's not how I see success.

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That's not how success lives and feels in my body.

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I love this so much because my reasons for loathing SMART goals are very

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mechanical, and,\ yours are very like energetic and emotional and beyond that.

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And I think that's just absolutely delightful.

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For me, incoherence and ambiguity are my kryptonites.

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I encountered smart goal setting first when I was an employee and

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had to write SMART goals for work or was assigned SMART goals for work.

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And every time I say SMART goals, I'm putting "goals" in

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quotation marks in my head.

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Because to me, SMART goals are planning activity, and

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that's plans, not goal setting.

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But when I started to work with SMART goals in the workplace, I had one

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workplace where SMART has a original meaning: Specific, Measurable.

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Achievable or Attainable, Relevant, and Time-bound.

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But I was in a workplace where A meant "Achievable" and R meant "Realistic".

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Because not everybody sticks to the original, you know,

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what the term stand for.

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There's a whole bunch of variations.

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And so I sat down to write my goals and I'm like, what the fuck is the difference

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between achievable and realistic?

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Right.

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And what does specific even mean?

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Yeah.

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I'm a words girl.

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I'm a semantics nerd.

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And so when we get into the semantics and the semantics aren't helpful for

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me, or aren't meaningful or aren't consistent, it's basically a term when

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what we're aiming for is shared meaning.

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I don't know that SMART goals really do that for us.

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So for me, it's really mechanical and like cognitive.

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you and I have both developed alternative goal-setting practices.

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You mentioned "specific", and why was that the first word in SMART that you

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went to when you're like, what the fuck?

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Tell me more about that.

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When I hear "specific," it, it feels like it's a narrowing down.

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There's a very narrow focus.

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There's a very like, "Let's close in and gets straight to the

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point." And I'm like, why are we gonna get straight to the point?

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Because when we get straight and we get like that tunnel vision, there's

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an entire world that's happening around you — and it's like you can't see.

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You don't get to see the path.

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It's like you're legit and like an underwater tunnel

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that you're driving through.

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And you know that there's a world around you, but it's not safe

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enough for you to be outside.

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So there's an element of not feeling safe.

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There's an element of not being able to enjoy the journey and enjoying the view.

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And I think in the process of all of that, people are missing the nuance,

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they're missing the emotional cues.

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They're missing what it feels like to be alive in the journey of getting

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to where you want to get, with whatever your outcome, your goal.

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As somebody who values curiosity and exploration I just feel

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like I'm getting boxed in.

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For what reason?

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What is the reason?

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I really love that you brought up fear in that context of closing off the curiosity

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and the learning journey that happens.

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And because I do, in the work that I do in corporate

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environments, I see so much fear.

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And so SMART goals are planning our activity, so they feel within our control.

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And so I think that's part of why some people are drawn to them

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or find some comfort in them.

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But then I'm with you.

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It's like, then that plan is at the exclusion of what we

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could discover on the way.

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Right.

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And I'm not even sure those goals are even things that are in our control.

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Because especially when it's an external metric of success, which is

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where most of our goals lie, is like on money, or I don't know, whatever.

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I've been so focused on away from external metrics, I can't even name them anymore.

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For me, it's like those are things that are outside my control.

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I can't decide how much money I make.

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Yeah, I can put in a lot of effort, but if the market's not right,

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or I haven't attracted right-fit clients, or just — myriad amounts of

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reasons that may not be within it.

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So this idea of goals and outcomes being within our control, I'm

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like, well that's just silly.

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'Cause are they really?

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Absolutely.

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that's why I usually say an "illusion of control." Because even what

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we feel like we control — isn't.

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There are more variables.

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It's an illusion, or a comforting illusion of control, in most situations.

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When we spoke the first time, you mentioned there's no room

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for feelings in SMART goals.

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So I'd love for you to tell me a little bit more about, for you, what

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gets lost when people are really only focused on those SMART outcomes?

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Yeah.

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I'm a data nerd, so I understand the power of quantitative data and qualitative data.

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They have very specific reasons for existing and you use them

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for very specific reasons and very specific purpose.

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I have a master's in policy, so I understand numbers, but I also

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understand that qualitative is something you also need, because

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that's where the storytelling happens.

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But for me, when I think about like SMART goals and that quantitative

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thing, I think my hang-up with the quantitative and the numbers game is

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that's the only thing that you go towards.

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It's either you pass or fail.

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This theme of exploration and curiosity will play throughout every number,

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every letter that SMART stands for.

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Because you're just so focused on getting to that number that

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everything else falls away.

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And I personally don't feel like I get an opportunity to enjoy the process, because

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I'm so stressed and so focused on getting that number that nothing else matters.

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I'm one of those people that is very type A — I've gotten better about not being so

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type A as I've fallen into my ripe old age — but I used to be that person who was like,

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"I have to get to this." And at all costs.

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By any means necessary.

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Which means that, again, tunnel vision.

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You're not seeing anything around you.

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You're not being able to enjoy it.

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It almost feels like you're losing a sense of connection with yourself too.

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Because you're so focused on getting there that you're not even paying

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attention to what your body might need.

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I know that when I'm chasing goals like that, there would be times where

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I would skip meals, I wouldn't drink water, I would not move out of a

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chair because I was so hyper-focused on getting to where I wanted to go,

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that again, nothing else mattered.

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So my body was like a desiccated mummy sitting in a chair, and it's

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like, baby, we cannot do this.

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This is not happening.

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You have an alternative approach to goal setting that you

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advocate for — the SLIC method.

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So tell me about your SLIC goal-setting system.

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So SLIC stands for Sustainable, Long-term, Iterative, and Consistent.

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And the S is super important.

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I'm that too.

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I'm that self-care girlie.

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I'm going to put self-care above everything else because if you are

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not taking care of yourself, there's no way in hell you're gonna be

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able to take care of anybody else.

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And also, when you take care of yourself, you are sending a gentle reminder that

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you matter and that your needs matter.

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And I think in this world where it's capitalism and the patriarchy and

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just systems in general that are doing everything to tell you that

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you are not worthy and that you are not deserving, that we have to be

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very proactive in making sure that we are taking care of ourselves.

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So sustainability, self-care, those kinds of things will always be at the top

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of my list, which is why that's first.

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So there's Sustainable, Long-term — oftentimes SMART goals feel like

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they're very focused on the short term.

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It's like, you get to a goal and that's it.

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There's nothing else.

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But I'm thinking about, okay, if I hit this goal, or wherever I'm trying to

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get to, that's not the end of the story.

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There's also what comes next.

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There's also the journey that gets there.

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It's allowing myself to take a moment to pause and breathe and invite in a lot

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more space in my body, and invite in more space in my biz or wherever I'm working.

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It's focusing on long-term outcome, long-term progress.

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Iterative, so I think one of the other failings of SMART goals is that it

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does not allow opportunity for you to kind of learn and fuck it up and

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make mistakes and pivot and, you know, change things up if something happens.

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Because it's got that very es/no, pass/fail, succeed/fail binary.

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And iterative goes, "Okay cool, I can relax into this. This is great." Like,

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let me go on this little side quest.

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Maybe today I want to, I don't know, take a rest today.

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Or maybe I wanna go explore something different.

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It might kind of tangibly has something to do with this, but not really, and

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it's gonna get me closer to this.

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But if I was following a SMART goal, I would not be able to go explore it,

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because it's a very tenuous thread.

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So it's like, "Okay, I can't do this because if I go focus on the quest, I

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can't focus on the the goal that I'm getting to." So I want something that's

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iterative and allows me to, again, play and explore and get curious.

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Because if I open up this door and allow myself to go choose this side

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quest, who knows what I might find?

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I might be able to take in more information.

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I might be able to learn something different that says, "Okay, maybe this

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direction you're going isn't right and we need to pivot and we need to change."

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So this is allowing me to adapt and change and be in an ecosystem that's

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thriving and growing at any point.

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So, Sustainable, Long-term, Iterative.

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And the last one is Consistent.

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And it's not consistent as them "showing up every day." I swear to goodness, I

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want all coaches, service providers, anybody who is an online person to

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stop saying consistent means is showing up every day in the same fucking way.

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Stop doing it.

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Just please, sweet baby gods.

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I'm begging you.

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Just do not do that.

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Because consistent is showing up as your needs allow.

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And again, I'm very body-based.

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I'm very much in tune with what my body needs and how I, move

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in the world, and what I need in order to show up as my best self.

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And so when I'm thinking about Consistent, it's allowing myself to check in

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with what I need and how I'm moving through the day and going, "Okay, cool.

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This is the energy that I have for the day.

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Maybe my definition of consistent means that I'm only showing up a little bit.

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But I'm still showing up, so that means I'm still consistent." Even if it's

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something like, "my consistency today is just checking in to do a little journal

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prompt." That means I'm still consistent.

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So my SLIC system is really about taking off the pressure that SMART goals put in.

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It's really taking off the expectations of success that the SMART goal really

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like hammers in dust, and really goes, "Okay, cool. What do you need to know

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about yourself right now in order to show up today with the tools, knowledge,

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resources, and energy that you have already, and letting that be enough."

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The thing that really catches my ear, thinking about some of the clients I work

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with who have either been conditioned or who have evolved to be cut off from body.

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And like a minute ago when we were talking about SMART goals, the term that came

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to mind was "self-abandoning." Like, the singular focus on this one outcome.

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That to me is really arbitrary, it's sometimes at the exclusion of our

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somatic awareness or our selves.

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And so I'd love for the listeners who are listening and their brains are still in

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the space of, "I have to" or "I can't" or who live in the conditioned binary.

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What would you say to someone either drawing from your work with clients

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or from your own evolution, what would you say to someone who's listening

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and is like still in that space?

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The first thing I'd ask you to do is invite a little bit of grace

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and compassion for yourself.

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Because these are really ingrained systems.

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We are indoctrinated into like capitalism and the patriarchy and

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deciding who we are and who we should be from a very young age.

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And we are not told that there is possibility to be anything other

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than what you're expected to be.

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There's probably not gonna be a big moment where you're gonna go, "Okay, this binary

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is not working for me." It's going to require a lot of grace and compassion to

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even just have that self-awareness to be, "Oh, this is not working." So I would say:

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One, offering that grace and compassion.

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And two, start looking at little micro things that you're doing during

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the day, and start paying attention.

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Taking notes.

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Whether that's doing an energy tracker.

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I think one of the thing first things I did was track, "Do I

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have more energy in the morning?

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Do I have more energy at night?

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Are there pockets of day where I have more energy?" Because that was allowing me more

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space to actually figure out and be more brave and comfortable in myself to have

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a moment to step back and start thinking critically about how I'm moving in the

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world and how I'm showing up in the world.

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But, grace and compassion, and then taking these small moments to start getting a

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little bit of self-awareness about all the ways in which you are getting really

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rigid on "I have to do it this way" or "it has to be this way," and going and just

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starting to invite a little curiosity.

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Why does it have to be that way?

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Who says it has to be this way?

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What story is it telling me about what happens if I don't do it this way?

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And letting just those little small nudges be enough.

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Because it's gonna be baby steps for a long time.

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unless you, of course decide to go on a Vogue runway and and decide that you

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are coming home to yourself and coming home to an identity that is completely

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outside what society is deemed as quote-unquote “normal.” Unless you

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have that moment, you're gonna have to pull out these bricks bit by bit.

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Bit by bit.

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So it's going to take some time.

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I worry, like if the catwalk doesn't work, maybe you're just that person, it's

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like, "Okay, cool, this isn't working. Let's just get a steamroller and knock it

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down." There's always gonna be options.

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But that grace and space, to have a little compassion for yourself, to have

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a little bit of curiosity, and to start having those brave questions about the

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way the world works and your place and it, and does it need to be that way?

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Every person starts somewhere.

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Just seeing how disconnected people become from self and self-care

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and body-based experiences.

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I just think there's a lot to be talked about because even if people don't

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feel it or get it right away, there's something at some point in their life

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where they're gonna be like, whoa, look at that — I'm looking at bees right now

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pollinating blackberry flowers right outside my door, and it's like, whoa.

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You know, like, we have those moments that stop us and remind

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us that we are living beings in a world, not just cogs in machines.

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And you just said something too that made me think about something.

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'cause you're talking about people who are in a body and, you might be in a body that

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feels a little, like not only disconnected from your brain, but feels like dead.

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Like your body just kind of feels like it's on autopilot.

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And so trying to have those questions that I posed might feel really

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big and might feel really scary.

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It might feel really unnerving, because you were starting to question.

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So grace and compassion might not be enough.

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And what I would invite you to do to that is find like some kind of

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movement practice to start getting those feelings to move, because your

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feelings, if they get stuck in your body, it's just gonna continue to go.

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And you're gonna start feeling really physical effects for it.

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Allowing those feelings to move through it, something where you can start

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noticing how your body is moving in space, and start paying attention to, like

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— especially when you're on walks, noticing how the balls to your feet strike the

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ground and just paying attention to that.

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That way, you're not like outside of your body and feeling like it feels

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unsafe or it doesn't feel brave for you.

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I don't wanna say "safe" because safe means a lot of different things.

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It's very subjective.

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I think more "brave." It feels more brave to be in your body.

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So just start paying attention to those small things.

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And if it starts feeling too much, then back up.

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Retreat.

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Retreat, go back into that like mind-numbness.

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Keep building in little increments.

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Again, it's baby steps.

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Working with your body, especially when it doesn't feel brave to be in

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your body, takes a very long time.

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It takes a lot of tears, it takes a lot of swearing.

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I think I cussed for like years because my body just did not feel safe.

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And I had to take baby steps.

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Even like meditation was really hard.

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It's going to take time.

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Especially the more that your body feels unsafe, especially

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people who are carrying trauma.

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I don't say that I'm trauma-informed.

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I say I'm more trauma-conscious.

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I'm aware that people move in the world and have traumatic

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experiences, and your body just sometimes carries the memories of it.

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Our bodies do keep the score of that.

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And so it takes a little bit of time to get your body used to the fact that it

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is feeling brave, that it is feeling a little bit more brave in this moment.

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And so again, it's baby steps.

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It's taking the time to be patient, which is why I said grace

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and capacity in the beginning.

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Yeah.

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My last guest, Shauna Bryant, is a breathwork, instructor, and

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she talked about titration, like little bits to titrate up, which

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is what I'm hearing from you also.

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But I'd just love to hear a little bit about, you know, with all of the things

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that you could do with your life and work and energy, why have you chosen

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this kind of work that queers work?

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Or what drew you to it?

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For me, queers hold a special kind of magic, especially

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like gender-expansive folks.

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And for people who are not aware of my language, gender-expansive is

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anybody who, doesn't really identify with the genders male and female.

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They're kind of more out there, more expansive.

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There's a lot of unfurling.

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So that's what I call gender-expansive folks, because

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again, possibility and curiosity.

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It is legit one of the things that I prize and one of the things I value.

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You know, you could be leveraging your skills and talent and everything that is

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you in any millions of different fields, and you've chosen to work with people kind

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of around their careers and the workplace.

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So what drew you to doing this work in the workplace setting

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and in the career setting?

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So for me queers, they're a special kind of magic.

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As somebody who identifies as queer, they're my people.

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And before I was doing this work, I was working in community spaces, doing

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prison abolition work, working with like formerly incarcerated queer people.

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I originally started actually doing criminal justice policy.

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That master's degree in policy came in.

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And so I was doing, I was directing policy at a national level and I hated it.

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Absolutely.

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This was before like my gender unfurled, and I kind of unfolded that flag.

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But buttoned-up suits?

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It wasn't fitting my body.

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And I knew even when I was getting that degree that it was just gonna be awful.

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And then I was going to hate it.

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I was gonna be able to do so much good, but it was not gonna be

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something I was going to enjoy.

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And I got lucky that I got to get to work in a nonprofit organization, and doing

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like prison abolition work, because I did get a bit of that community stuff.

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And, and it was good because I got to decide what policy looked like.

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I still had to work on the hill and still had to influence like lobbyists

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and reps and have long conversations and have to make compromises.

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And you were just always trying to figure out where am

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I drawing my line in the sand?

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I always had to think critically about how much harm am I causing?

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Is this going to cause harm long term?

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What's the compromise that I have to make here?

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And so I started looking at frameworks like transformative and restorative

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justice, which takes that step forward and looks at like, what are all the

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systemic ways in which harm is being caused, and how do we make repairs there?

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And so as I was doing this working, kind of deepening my understanding of what

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healing justice and transformative and restorative justice looks like, I started

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realizing that I was not cut out to be making this change on a macro level.

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Yes, I loved it.

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And I love being able to make big impact like that.

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I'm an introvert, but I'm also very personable.

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I do love talking to people and I do like getting to know people.

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I love to hold space for people.

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I like hearing their stories and like helping them figure out how to move

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in the world in a way where they don't feel like they have to be shamed or have

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to be judged for things that they have done or experiences that they have had.

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I wanted to do it on a micro level.

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And I was like, there's not really anything going on in like

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the coaching space right now.

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This was around 2020-ish, 2021-ish.

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So I was still working in nonprofit, and kind of building like a

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spiritual coaching practice that was working with people like this.

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And so I started doing just one-on-one work with people and helping them

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figure out like, how do we do transformative justice at a micro level?

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How do we do it on a person level?

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And over time, it kind of evolved.

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I'd already built my business.

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I was like, okay, cool.

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So now that I know there's lots of queers and spiritual people who are

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building businesses, and yes, they want the transformative justice, that means

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that I get to talk about social justice.

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Now I get to talk about like how to be anti-racist, and

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anti-capitalist, and anti-system.

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And how do we build these into your businesses?

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What does that look like?

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And that's where I'm at, figuring out what all this looks like.

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So roundabout story, how I got all into this is just like, queer people are magic.

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And I want that magic to be shared with everybody.

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And I want that magic to be shared in a way that feels good for whoever is

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casting those spells and like making those potions, and in a way where they

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feel celebrated and not exploited.

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Because so many people who fall outside the norm of the cishet

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patriarchy are being erased.

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And they're having violence acted on, and there's just so much where their magic

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and their specialness is getting dimmed.

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And it's not to say that people aren't like lighting up, but trying to be in

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that world where that constant pressure to be somebody that they're not, and being

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forced to fit in a world that was never designed for them in the first place.

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I don't want us to be sitting in that world.

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I wanna break open that box, break open those binaries, and allow us to all move

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in spaces where we feel celebrated, where we feel held, where we are well-resourced

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to live the lives that we deserve.

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Because this capitalist system has got to fucking go.

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I'm fucking over it.

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Like exploiting people, for what reason?

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So some billionaire can have an extra $2 in their bank account?

Speaker: 00:25:52

Like for what reason?

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One of the things that I've enjoyed so much in watching your work since

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we connected, is the role that your organizing background plays in.

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A lot of our people internalize, "what's wrong with me?" Like, that was the

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voice in my head for a long, long time.

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"What's wrong with me at work?

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What's wrong with me that I can't just chill the fuck out, what's wrong with me

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that I can't understand what's expected of me?" You know, it's that steady

Speaker: 00:26:26

stream of "what's wrong with me?" voices.

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I recognized finally that there was nothing wrong with me.

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I was in environments that weren't fertile for me, and I could

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create an environment that is.

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What I love about your organizing background is there's so little attention

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paid to actually recognizing the act of harm that happens in workplaces.

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Your approach and the way that you work with people, your experience with trying

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to write actual harms from your organizing background, comes through in how you see

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people in their work and in their careers.

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And I just think that's really special.

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I think there's so much focus placed on the individual pulling themselves up, and

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so little focus on the active recovery from harm and recognition of harm that

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happens in workplaces and in careers.

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That's just one of the things that I really enjoy seeing about what you do.

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Thank you.

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I'm so tired of seeing people try to fit in spaces too small for their brilliance.

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There are just so many people who are brilliant and who are smart and who

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are so very capable and have the skills and the knowledge and the capacity

Speaker: 00:27:43

to do so much good in this world.

Speaker: 00:27:45

Sometimes it just feels like the world has just gotten to them and

Speaker: 00:27:50

that light has gotten really dim.

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I can still see it.

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I want this for you.

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I wanna be able to see people like turn that light on.

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I want them to open up like a flower.

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I want them to bloom into the person that they know themselves to be.

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They just need a little help for remembering it.

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They need a little nudge to remember that they've always been this way.

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Just the world got to them.

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And so we just need to unmake the world a little bit so they

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can find their own place here.

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I also think it's important among my listenership, it's a really broad swath

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of people, and there are gonna be people who are really excited to hear us talking

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about queerness, and then there are gonna be people who are like, what the fuck?

Speaker: 00:28:32

I think it's really important.

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people who aren't a part of the queer community, might listen to part of this

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conversation and think it's not for them.

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And what I'm saying is it is absolutely for you too, because all of us need

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that connection with self and that unfurling that you're talking about.

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Queer for me is anybody who is looking at the system and realizing

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that they don't fit and they want to do something about not fitting.

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They see that there are issues and that there are challenges and that there

Speaker: 00:29:06

are very real problems, the Holocaust that's happening in Palestine, the

Speaker: 00:29:09

ICE raids that were happening in LA, everything that's happening in Sudan

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and Congo, and just all of these things.

Speaker: 00:29:15

If you see these things and you know that there is something that

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is deeply disturbing and not okay about that, and you are actively

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working towards dismantling that and doing something to, bring about

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change, then I see you as queer.

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If you're seeing the world and realizing that it's not perfect and you wanna do

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something about it, and you are doing something about it, then for me that's

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queer enough because you're, you're legitimately queering the system.

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You're changing the system.

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You're transforming it into something that it's never been before.

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Yeah.

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I think the part of why I am so grateful that we've like that we intersected is.

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I even struggle with the term "goal setting".

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Like I want to come up with something other than the term "goal setting"

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to describe what we're talking about.

Speaker: 00:30:02

Because when we talk about goal setting, we think about external accomplishment or

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achievement of that one specific thing.

Speaker: 00:30:10

In my work and my world, and I think in yours, when we talk about goal setting,

Speaker: 00:30:15

we're talking about tapping into what we know deeply to be true and important

Speaker: 00:30:21

within to point us in the direction of learning, growth, self-knowing, curiosity.

Speaker: 00:30:28

It's like the furthest thing from what most people think of

Speaker: 00:30:32

when they think of goal setting.

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And I felt really alone in that.

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Like, what is it with me that when I think about goal setting,

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I see it so differently?

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And so it's just been really fun to find someone else who, when we talk about

Speaker: 00:30:46

goal setting, we can talk about it in this completely different way together.

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Yeah, I love it.

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Yeah, and I've really enjoyed this conversation.

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But I also love that that's kind of like queer, queering biz.

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It's like redefining words and redefining spaces, making them our own, and claiming

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our power and claiming our sovereignty.

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And just saying, this is mine.

Speaker: 00:31:03

And I'm like, well, we've already reclaimed queer.

Speaker: 00:31:06

Can we reclaim goals?

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Like, can we just reclaim it?

Speaker: 00:31:09

I mean, not to like put a totally cheesy point on it, but

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we're queering goal setting.

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Right, we are.

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And we're not alone.

Speaker: 00:31:18

I know, but yeah, I'm still having like a very like, bodily

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reaction to the word goal.

Speaker: 00:31:22

Like I just, feel like I just wanna like hairball, I just wanna choke on it.

Speaker: 00:31:26

Because I spend more time now in the motorcycle racing, it's like I spend

Speaker: 00:31:32

so much time now on the sports side of things where goal setting is like we're

Speaker: 00:31:37

talking about the process of becoming.

Speaker: 00:31:40

It is not the destination.

Speaker: 00:31:43

I don't have that visceral reaction to the term goal setting anymore, but I do

Speaker: 00:31:48

just wish there was a way to distinguish what we're talking about from that term.

Speaker: 00:31:53

Yeah.

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And now I'm like, maybe it's just, what are you becoming?

Speaker: 00:31:56

What if it's not goal setting?

Speaker: 00:31:58

What if it's just becoming, what are you becoming?

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That, yeah, that just gave me goosebumps.

Speaker: 00:32:03

I like that idea, like becoming, instead of goal setting.

Speaker: 00:32:06

Yeah, I like that too.

Speaker: 00:32:08

Well, I think that's the perfect note.

Speaker: 00:32:10

I know you have a launch going right now, if people wanna connect with

Speaker: 00:32:13

you or they wanna hear more about your work, where can they find you?

Speaker: 00:32:17

I'm super excited because by the time this episode comes out, I will

Speaker: 00:32:19

have my Instagram nine-grid, So like that would be the good space.

Speaker: 00:32:22

But I am, its_mxzephy across all social.

Speaker: 00:32:25

So that's I-T-S underscore M-X Z-E-P-H-Y across all of them.

Speaker: 00:32:31

I'm more on Threads than I am anywhere else, but I have been

Speaker: 00:32:34

showing up on Instagram Stories because I can do talking heads.

Speaker: 00:32:36

I am launching something called the Aligned as Fuck Biz Clinic.

Speaker: 00:32:39

So I'm in the middle of launching it now There's so much

Speaker: 00:32:41

collective care built into it.

Speaker: 00:32:42

10% of every sale goes to an organization that people vote on.

Speaker: 00:32:46

Every tenth session goes to somebody who needs it, and then there's also

Speaker: 00:32:49

a 20-minute follow up that people can have, but they can donate that

Speaker: 00:32:52

20-minute to somebody who needs it.

Speaker: 00:32:54

Collective care is the business plan, and it's making sure that we are all taken

Speaker: 00:32:57

care of and we are all well-resourced.

Speaker: 00:33:00

And the only way we can do that is by both taking care of ourselves and then turning

Speaker: 00:33:04

around and taking care of everybody else.

Speaker: 00:33:05

Thank you so much for making the time.

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This is so awesome.

Speaker: 00:33:09

Thank you for having me.

Speaker: 00:33:10

I really appreciate it.

Speaker: 00:33:11

This has been a lot of fun.

Speaker: 00:33:13

It's actually been the highlight of my day.

Speaker: 00:33:16

That shift from goal setting to becoming — I am gonna be sitting

Speaker: 00:33:20

with that one for a while.

Speaker: 00:33:21

If you found yourself nodding along during our critique of SMART goals, or

Speaker: 00:33:26

if Zeph's SLIC Method resonates with you, I would love to hear about it.

Speaker: 00:33:31

You can find me on most social media platforms @saralobkovich or

Speaker: 00:33:35

email me at sara@thinkydoers.com.

Speaker: 00:33:39

You can find Zeph across all social platforms @its_mxzephy.

Speaker: 00:33:49

Zeph is most active on Threads where we met, but you'll also find

Speaker: 00:33:52

them sharing wisdom on Instagram.

Speaker: 00:33:54

If you have questions, suggestions, or would like to connect, you

Speaker: 00:33:58

can always find me at findrc.co or on any social media platform.

Speaker: 00:34:03

I'm pretty sure I'm the only Sara Lobkovich out there.

Speaker: 00:34:06

And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Thinkydoers

Speaker: 00:34:09

wherever you listen to podcasts and consider leaving us a review.

Speaker: 00:34:13

These conversations matter and they reach more people when you

Speaker: 00:34:16

help spread and amplify them.